Eye-Fi with video support

[jiri]

it's finally here .... Eye-Fi supports video uploads. Well it looks like for now just Youtube, let's hope Smugmug is next :bow


http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10134327-100.html

[hyachts]

it's finally here .... Eye-Fi supports video uploads. Well it looks like for now just Youtube, let's hope Smugmug is next :bow


http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10134327-100.html

Well, not "here" exactly. They've just announced that they're going to support it. I'm most interested to know if they'll make it available to existing card users as a firmware upgrade or as a purchased add-on. I can't think of any hardware hurdles to doing it on existing cards...

And they keep talking about upload straight to youtube with no mention of local transfer. I'm assuming that's a given?

[darryl]

I do hope they address an issue I found w/ shooting video while the Eye-Fi card is actively uploading images. I got some nasty static/interference in the audio, not dissimilar to the annoying GSM noise you might hear when your AT&T phone is near any amplified audio device (TV, radio, concert amps!)

Since video files are significantly larger, and will take significantly longer to upload, this would have an impact on trying to shoot video at the same time.

[peestandingup]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I personally dont see the draw to these. I mean, why would I want to upload pictures that I havent confirmed are even any good or dont need any edits to begin with directly to a website for all to see?? No camera takes perfect shots everytime. And video is another beast altogether. I mean, I guess it's neat, but not very useful for most people who are even halfway serious about how their stuff looks.

The only thing I could see useful is being able to transfer the photos wirelessly to my computer over the network without having to take out the card/put it in the reader.

[photodoug]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I personally dont see the draw to these. I mean, why would I want to upload pictures that I havent confirmed are even any good or dont need any edits to begin with directly to a website for all to see?? No camera takes perfect shots everytime. And video is another beast altogether. I mean, I guess it's neat, but not very useful for most people who are even halfway serious about how their stuff looks.

The only thing I could see useful is being able to transfer the photos wirelessly to my computer over the network without having to take out the card/put it in the reader.

My family uses our P&S alot....while I'm at work usually....so I get an awsome treat when I get a text message that new photos are uploaded. Family never has to think about anything other than snapping tons of photos. The transfer of photos from their cameras was always the sticking point....no longer the problem with Eye-Fi.

[gillat]

Here is another way to think about it -- upload everything up to your computer, and to SmugMug, and now, you've done the hard part. If you want to upload to SmugMug and have everything go up privately, because you don't want others to see your bad photos -- no prob. But at least your photos are now backup and are stored online as well.

I personally agree with photodoug -- for a family, you don't need to shoot perfect photos every time. I can finally see my sister's kids photos, everyday, and I don't need to wait for her husband to upload them, once a month :-)

[richW]

Here is another way to think about it -- upload everything up to your computer, and to SmugMug, and now, you've done the hard part. If you want to upload to SmugMug and have everything go up privately, because you don't want others to see your bad photos -- no prob. But at least your photos are now backup and are stored online as well.

I personally agree with photodoug -- for a family, you don't need to shoot perfect photos every time. I can finally see my sister's kids photos, everyday, and I don't need to wait for her husband to upload them, once a month :-):agree
I have the P&S with the Eye-Fi card on my desk ready for anything that might come along. Nice to send a quick pic to friends & family. :thumb

[hyachts]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I personally dont see the draw to these. I mean, why would I want to upload pictures that I havent confirmed are even any good or dont need any edits to begin with directly to a website for all to see?? No camera takes perfect shots everytime. And video is another beast altogether. I mean, I guess it's neat, but not very useful for most people who are even halfway serious about how their stuff looks.

The only thing I could see useful is being able to transfer the photos wirelessly to my computer over the network without having to take out the card/put it in the reader.

The workflow Ziv describes is exactly what I do. Then, every so often, I go through and make the choice shots public. I suppose if I wasn't just shooting my family I'd go through, pick the shots worthy of PP and then upload tweaked copies, but I'd still have a full backup on SM.

[peestandingup]

Thats true. I never thought of backup purposes or perhaps a road trip where one needs to keep others updated with pics but doesnt bring along a laptop.

[gillat]

Thats true. I never thought of backup purposes or perhaps a road trip where one needs to keep others updated with pics but doesnt bring along a laptop.

Yup, but even when you're not just traveling. Most of the time, you're around your home, and you're not traveling. Further, most of the photos taken are around your home/town, and not during travel. So if you're one of those people that likes to share their photos with their friends and family, the Eye-Fi Card is the easiest solution. Nothing is perfect though. With the Eye-Fi Card, everything uploads, and you still have to go online to erase the bad photos. But we feel that it's much easier to do that, then to do everything else, that takes a lot of activation energy.

When you come back home from an event that you've taken photos at, you can plug the camera or the card in, download the photos to your PC, sort them, and then upload them to SmugMug. It's not rocket science to upload photos, but all of those tasks, put together, become a pain and a chore. With the Eye-Fi Card, all you do is just come home, and turn your camera on. The images upload automatically to your PC and to SmugMug, and in many cases, they're also geo-tagged correctly, and you get that service for free (geo), for just being a SmugMug customer.

Thanks --

Ziv.

[hyachts]

Yup, but even when you're not just traveling. Most of the time, you're around your home, and you're not traveling. Further, most of the photos taken are around your home/town, and not during travel. So if you're one of those people that likes to share their photos with their friends and family, the Eye-Fi Card is the easiest solution. Nothing is perfect though. With the Eye-Fi Card, everything uploads, and you still have to go online to erase the bad photos. But we feel that it's much easier to do that, then to do everything else, that takes a lot of activation energy.

When you come back home from an event that you've taken photos at, you can plug the camera or the card in, download the photos to your PC, sort them, and then upload them to SmugMug. It's not rocket science to upload photos, but all of those tasks, put together, become a pain and a chore. With the Eye-Fi Card, all you do is just come home, and turn your camera on. The images upload automatically to your PC and to SmugMug, and in many cases, they're also geo-tagged correctly, and you get that service for free (geo), for just being a SmugMug customer.

Thanks --

Ziv.

I hate to be a total shill, but I was surprised at how much more likely I was to do the parts I still had to do (sorting, editing and publishing) when the transferring/uploading was done already. I bought the card because I knew my wife wouldn't transfer pictures while I was at work (let alone upload them), but it's been far more useful to me for the reasons already discussed.

The instant gratification of a slideshow while you're at an event is a nice bonus, too. This year at Thanksgiving and Christmas I gave absent family links to the unlisted SmugMug galleries for the day(s) and they could check in and see the latest pictures basically as they happened. Pretty cool.

[gillat]

I hate to be a total shill, but I was surprised at how much more likely I was to do the parts I still had to do (sorting, editing and publishing) when the transferring/uploading was done already. I bought the card because I knew my wife wouldn't transfer pictures while I was at work (let alone upload them), but it's been far more useful to me for the reasons already discussed.

The instant gratification of a slideshow while you're at an event is a nice bonus, too. This year at Thanksgiving and Christmas I gave absent family links to the unlisted SmugMug galleries for the day(s) and they could check in and see the latest pictures basically as they happened. Pretty cool.

Awesome :-) Ya, there are a few uses that work really well. BTW, I like the word "shill". I had to look it up (English isn't my native language)... Cool...

[darryl]

Woot -- officially announced, preordering available now: $79.99 for Share edition (uploading to your computer + Smugmug/Phanfare/Flickr/etc), $99.99 for Explore (+ pseudo-geotagging + Wayport hotspot access).

http://www.eye.fi/news/2009/03/03/eye-fi-launches-4gb-wireless-memory-cards-that-automatically-upload-videos-to-youtube-and-flickr/

Direct link to store: http://store.eye.fi

BUT WAIT -- grrr. They're only announcing video support for Flickr and YouTube. NO WAY!

I hereby volunteer to beta test for SmugMug video uploading. First! I called it! :-}

(Oh yeah, and I can beta test for Phanfare too -- a two-fer!)

[gillat]

Darryl,

Thanks a lot for the offer. Stay tuned...

[docwalker]

I am one of the Video guys for SmugMug and I don't even have an Eye-fi to test this with. :D Of course that means I need to get a camera that accepts SD... I guess I need to finally break down and buy that G10. Man I hate that... :D

[darryl]

Isn't Canon's G-series something of a scam since the sensor is the same size as any of the far less expensive point and shoots? I mean, ok, maybe the lens is a tad nicer and it's got Manual controls (ooh, you can go from f4.5 all the way to f6.0!) and it reminds you of your old film camera, but ugh, with that tiny sensor will it even matter if you're shooting RAW (which you can get for free on a lot of the consumer cams along with full manual controls via CHDK)?

I'm just saying, you could probably by an extra lens for your real camera and have a much cheaper (and compact) point-and-shooter for video/travelling light, etc.

When i'm back at my computer i'll post a link to a review of the wee SD850 where the reviewer took beautiful shots around New Mexico, just tweaking the rudimentary "brightness" and "my colors" settings.

oh wait does the G10 do "hd" video? still, it's at a premium.

[docwalker]

Darryl, Be careful and don't fall into the trap of assuming what is needed or wanted based on the G10 selection. I do understand the sensor limitations and can live with that. I do appreciate the input. Let me give you a little better detail.

I am not one that likes to fool with aftermarket firmware like CHDK. I have not Jailbroken my iPhone and probably never will.

It does not do HD video. OK. I really do not need or want HD for what I want the camera for. I have a Canon XH-A1 for HD when I need it. Eventually I will get a 5dMKII. I need short video clips to document conditions, and changes as needed.

Sure, I could slap a smaller lens on my DSLR. But, I do not want to carry the DSLR into areas where this camera would be carried. There is no need to carry a $5,000 camera and lens. Frankly I am not going to risk it.

I need something small, and the retractable lens is a plus. Gloves are usually required so having large knobs and controls are a big plus. Size... I have relatively big hands so the G10 fits pretty well. Smaller P&S are harder to hold.

I want DSLR like control as I do not want the camera thinking for me. So control over the ISO, Shutter, Aperture are what I want. I do not use the P&S shooting style modes. I hate the results even on the best P&S.

I had originally thought about going with an Olympus 1030SW but finally decided against it due to several factors. I do love the fact that it is water , shock, drop, dust resistant... For what that is worth :-) But, I knew that the Eye-fi was not compatible so I tossed it out for that as well.

So, what kind of shooting? Stuff like this:

http://ellistonfd.smugmug.com/photos/329969038_BgJBt-M.jpg

Not your typical travel/vacation stuff. I really wish now that I had the vid camera with me. That is why video is a plus for this. My current 5d does not shoot video. And as I said, i would probably not want to carry it around like I did for this shoot. It was not my first choice but it was all that I had.

How would the Eye-fi come into play? Not necessarily for that particular event. But I can see other situations where automatic dump to the laptop, or download to SmugMug when I return to the station would come in handy. Being able to dump the video the same way would be even better.

If you have any specific recomendations, I am open to hear them. But, as this is not SmugMug Video Support related, please PM me or even email me at my SmugMug email. You have my address I am pretty sure.

--Doc

[gillat]

Darryl and Doc,

First of all -- don't forget that the Nikon D90 shoots videos, and is Eye-Fi friendly (with a cool Eye-Fi menu built-in).

Larry, our support guru has the G9. We're huge fans of Canon's consumer cameras (even though we're die-hard Nikon DSLR shooters). My immediate feedback is that the G9's image quality is BY FAR better than anything else from Canon consumer cameras (especially the SD line). The SD line is really cute, and has great image quality, but just go to DPReview and compare the images from the G9 / G10 to anything else from Canon. The G9 / G10 DO have physically larger sensors (they don't just have better lenses) and their images are comperable to DSLR's. They're bulky, but less bulky than DSLR's. Just go to DPReview and do some research...

The 5DmII is awesome, but @ $2.5K, it's > 2.5X the cost of a Nikon D90, and neither of them can focus mid-stream while you're shooting a video. The 5DmII is supposed to have a better movie quality but I haven't personally compared them. There is a really nifty online video that compares them, and based on that video, the D90's video is by far inferior to Canon's 5DmII. But I'm not sure if I believe it... I do know that I haven't been blown away by the D90's movie quality, but it's pretty cool to have it handy, in a DSLR...

In terms of using an Eye-Fi Card, if you really want to upload in real-time, and you can't wait to get into wi-fi range, or your work/home -- just get a CradlePoint + a Verizon or Sprint EVDO rev A card. I swear by that combo, since it makes me mobile and online everywhere I go, no matter what or where :-) The $60 / month to Verizon is pretty stiff though.

Hope this helps.

[docwalker]

Gillat,

I have about $12000 in Canon lenses. (500mm IS F4L , 70-200 IS f2.8L, 50mm 1.2L, 24-70 F2.8L, extenders and extension tubes etc.) It would take a lot more than the D90 to pull me back to Nikon. I ditched my D200 kit a long time ago and will not look back until Nikon comes out with a miracle. The lack of external audio support for the D90 is also a non-starter for me.

Sure the G10 does not either but I am not going to invest in a body for which I have no lenses when I can get a far superior camera that does work with my lenses later like the 5dMkII :D

EVDO is also a non-starter for me. I live in a very rural mountainous area. Cell service is non-existent in some areas including my house :-( I am even looking into one of the broadband home cell repeaters that Verizon now offers.

So for now, when I can afford it :-) The G10 will be on my list. Unless something better comes along. With the economy the way it is the release schedule may be slowed a little.

[darryl]

I *suppose* a G-Series vs. SD-Series is a bad comparison. Let's go cheaper -- A-Series, which has the same size sensor as the G-Series. The A650 IS has the same size sensor, manual controls, and lens of the G9. Yes, I know we Doc is thinking about the G10, but I based my "scam" comment on the older model, sorry.

Shooting with my dad's A-series (I can't remember which model, exactly), I never found that having "full manual" controls really made that much of a difference at all. It was almost a cosmetic feature to make people think that they were getting a fancy camera when in fact, it was, ultimately, just a point-and-shoot. Which is my point, re: the G-Series.

Doc, do you really think a G10 (or anything short of a DSLR) would've been able to capture those flames? The video would've been awesome I'm sure, but if you're concerned about the conditions you'd be taking a camera into (like say, a fire), wouldn't it be nicer to have a "disposable" camera (not meaning quality, but cost) that has the same optics, sensors and controls? (Yes, I know the physical controls on the G-Series are fancier, mimicking DSLR dials.) And would those controls even matter shooting video?

Fair point re: large hands/gloves. The A-Series is bigger than the SD.

Anyways, here's a link to some great Arizona and New Mexico images shot with a measly SD880IS, JPEGs straight out of the camera:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/compacts/sd880/gallery.htm

Puts what I've done with my XTi to shame. My point being, I suck, and a more expensive camera won't help that. :-P

Interestingly, the newest A-Series cameras from Canon use the smaller 1/2.3" sensor and lack manual controls. Maybe Canon finally realized they won't sell as many G-Series if they're offering the same camera (without the fancy steel case and styling) for $100 less.

[docwalker]

So... Last night was a perfect example. My help desk shift was over, wife was working late, I wanted food and did not want to cook. So I decided on a quick run into town. As I was leaving I eyed the big camera bag and thought there was no need. But, I try never to leave home without a camera... So I grabbed the 5D with the 50mm 1.2L on it. No Flash.

I got my food and stopped at the FD to eat it before it got cold. I got there just as they were setting up for a live burn/extinguisher training for the new guys. I did not know that this was going to happen. There was still some daylight left so I snapped a few pics to see what the layout would look like when it got dark. They also pre lit the pans to heat them up to make it easier when the students came out. I shot a few of the lit pans. Remembering this thread, I put the camera in green mode to fire a few test shots. No go. The camera would either see the flames and way underexpose the rest of the scene, or it would see the smoke/dark background and overexpose the fire. Also the shutter time was horrendously long blurring everything. I had to take more control or give up.

As it got dark, the students came out. I set the camera for 1600ISO and AV between 2.8-4.5 for most of the shots. The conditions would change rapidly. In some cases way faster than the camera would be able to handle. As one fire would be put out making things dark, the instructor would relight the other pan, sometimes both were lit. I could think ahead about what I wanted and get the settings correct for the shot. Click. But when I tried auto settings, the camera would evaluate and expose for the current conditions. Half a second later the conditions would change. Imagine a raging fire, and then faster than a flash bulb popping, almost total darkness. Yes, it is that quick. I was often trying to catch the fire in the middle of it going out.

I really wish I had the video camera at that point. Yes, the auto mode of most of these video cameras would have also over/under exposed but it would have been great to have a little bit of motion to show what was happening. I had left my cheap HD vid camera in the coat at the house :-/

I don't expect to get super high quality for most of these shots. I am not selling them anyway. They are really to document things on fire scenes and training. The link you sent from Kens site really cannot compare. He often waits until the perfect time to take his shots, well lit, and just that right time of day. I am not faulting him at all. I just never have that convenience. How would that same camera fare in darkness or with only a few sources of light?

I will take a look hard at the A series. As I said, I am not dead set on the G10. It just seems to fit the bill. I see even the A590 has some of the features like manual and movie modes so that would be a plus.