Headshot Feedback

[wxwax]

The reason this is here, is because I would appreciate feedback on ways to improve this headshot in Photoshop.

The goal is to produce a B&W headshot that can be submitted for acting roles. The original shot is in color, of course. And it was underexposed. I've pushed it in RAW. I used the Zero-Zero (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=1704#post1704) method for B&W conversion, added black, burned in a darker side on the right of her face, toned using both black and then sepia. The original was also a wee bit soft, so I sharpened for the eyes, then blurred and masked off the eyes, eyebrows, lips and hair.

I'd like to have as wide a range of gray as possible, for depth. I feel that too much of this shot is in the middle of the range.

Anyone have any suggestions, feedback, ideas, crazy notions, murder confessions or infectious diseases they'd care to share?


http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/22091709-L.jpg

[DavidTO]

I agree with your thoughts, about it being too much in the middle, or possibly even being too bright.

Can you post a link to the original color?

[wxwax]

I agree with your thoughts, about it being too much in the middle, or possibly even being too bright.

Can you post a link to the original color?
:nod

Although I'll add that as usual, it looks far more muted on dgrin than it does in PS, or even in my smugmug account.

[wxwax]

BTW, folks, I'd prefer that you *not* download the shot and play with it.

Thanks for understanding.

[DavidTO]

You only asked for PS advice, but I would also mention that the background is a bit industrial looking.

[wxwax]

You only asked for PS advice, but I would also mention that the background is a bit industrial looking.
Oh yeah, absolutely, you're right. I plan to play with that after I get the face fixed. If I get the face fixed! We're probably going to do another shoot, but I'd like to get close with this one.

[DavidTO]

Try the Gorman method for b/w conversion. I actually don't think it's original with him, but the link to the pdf is here. (http://www.gormanphotography.com/bw_conversion.pdf)

[wxwax]

Try the Gorman method for b/w conversion. I actually don't think it's original with him, but the link to the pdf is here. (http://www.gormanphotography.com/bw_conversion.pdf)
Thanks, this makes for some interesting comparisons.

[ian408]

I like the catch light in her eye and the contrast in the eyes.

The composition looks fine but lighting wise, she blends into the background
on the left side. I also think the blinds make the image look off-kilter.

Could you re-shoot with the subject wearing a darker jacket or perhaps
change the background a bit?

Ian

[GREAPER]

I think she looks great, but may be just a touch to brigh. Over all the image is very bright, but I think the bigest help would be to change the background to something a bit darker. She blends in too much and it makes the over all image bright.

She is a beautiful woman. I know you can get something great for her to use.

[lynnma]

Sid.. I think the eyes are great the pose is good in fact I really like it, I do concur though that to me it's too bright.. it flattens it too much. I'd love to see what you do with a tad more shadow? :clap

[wxwax]

Thanks for the feedback! I'll be figuring out a way to change the background after I get the face exposed correctly. And at some point we'll do a second shoot.

I figure I need to find a better location, throw much more light on her somehow, and increase the light contrast on her face.

Here's my last attempt from late last night, uncropped.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/22098968-L.jpg

[XO-Studios]

I like the catch light in her eye and the contrast in the eyes.

The composition looks fine but lighting wise, she blends into the background
on the left side. I also think the blinds make the image look off-kilter.

Ian
I do like the catch light in her eyes, but this BW conversion killed the nuances in teh eyes as well.

I like the blinds as background but would have her move over a hair as the 'holes' in the blinds (vertical line) are a little distracting. This would also help her being very centered in the frame.

As for taking another shot, try to get her lit in a way that you do not have to dodge or burn.

Then again, what do I know.

XO,

[XO-Studios]

I do like the catch light in her eyes, but this BW conversion killed the nuances in teh eyes as well.

I like the blinds as background but would have her move over a hair as the 'holes' in the blinds (vertical line) are a little distracting. This would also help her being very centered in the frame.

As for taking another shot, try to get her lit in a way that you do not have to dodge or burn.

Then again, what do I know.

XO,
An additional note on the catch light in her eyes. It seems rather large, and at an unusual spot in the eyes (below center).

XO,

[wxwax]

Thanks XO, I agree with your notes. Not much choice on the blinds, I'm gonna hafta figure out a whole new setting. This was all natural light with a reflector, and the big lesson is that that's not enough light for this kind of shot. Gonna hafta to rethink that as well. But you're right, curves and dodging and burning are not the solution - creating a better file to start with is.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/22160787-L.jpg

[Nikolai]

To my untrained eye it looks waaaay too bright and burned out. Unless that was on purpose I think there might be some tweaks done.

I normally don't use just ONE method of b/w conversion. Depending on the shot I can use lab method, or simply channel mixer, or something else.

I'm honoring your request not to play with the shot, but if you decided you want some PS aid - I'd be glad to be of service (and I only charge one martini per shot:D )

sid :beer nik

[EDIT]
Last version looks MUCH better!:thumb

[ian408]

Second version looks better.

Instead of a reflector, can you try a translucent panel to cut down
on the amount of window light?

Ian

[wxwax]

Second version looks better.

Instead of a reflector, can you try a translucent panel to cut down
on the amount of window light?

Ian
Thanks Ian. Actually, I believe I need to add light. I had to really bump the exposure in RAW and use too much curves to create some contrast.

[ginger_55]

please don't take this wrong, I love your work, but my first thought was the sharpness and the beautiful woman (2 thoughts there, I guess)

My next thought:

Stepford?

g

[ginger_55]

I wish Rutt would write a whole tutorial on sharpening people. I just think it is awefully sharp. Or something.

He uses CMYK and the black channel? How did you do it, or did I just not read far enough back?

ginger

[ian408]

Thanks Ian. Actually, I believe I need to add light. I had to really bump the exposure in RAW and use too much curves to create some contrast.
Hmmm...time for some alien bees like light.

[wxwax]

Hmmm...time for some alien bees like light.
Yeah. And I know it's the right thing to do. Thing is, I've never used lights, so I'm reluctant to learn while a person waits on me. I've seen TV set-ups, but flash is different in that the lights aren't always on!

Silly, I know, but I'm easily intimidated. :uhoh

[ian408]

Yeah. And I know it's the right thing to do. Thing is, I've never used lights, so I'm reluctant to learn while a person waits on me. I've seen TV set-ups, but flash is different in that the lights aren't always on!

Silly, I know, but I'm easily intimidated. :uhoh
Or maybe you could use one or two 420's with your 580? Shoot them into an
umbrella with the camera on P and the 580 off?

I know what you mean about practicing while someone's waiting :D

Ian

[mercphoto]

First off, beautiful woman and a great pose.

Now, from what I have learned about taking black and white portraits, what you want is a scene with a ton of dynamic range, from white to black, dark to bright. Your scene doesn't have much to start with, which makes the post-processing that much harder.

On your next shot, first thing I would do is change to a dark background (because of her bright clothes, blonde hair and fair skin). Or, change her clothes to a dark color.

Your second post is much better. You can see detail in the stitching, and a bit more detail in the face.

You might also try getting light in from the side, or even from behind. Light from behind will create a nice glow around the hair. Light from the side will provide delicate shadows from the shape of her face and dimples, and add depth. Light from directly in front (i.e. on camear flash) seldom does that.

[wxwax]

First off, beautiful woman and a great pose.

Now, from what I have learned about taking black and white portraits, what you want is a scene with a ton of dynamic range, from white to black, dark to bright. Your scene doesn't have much to start with, which makes the post-processing that much harder.

On your next shot, first thing I would do is change to a dark background (because of her bright clothes, blonde hair and fair skin). Or, change her clothes to a dark color.

Your second post is much better. You can see detail in the stitching, and a bit more detail in the face.

You might also try getting light in from the side, or even from behind. Light from behind will create a nice glow around the hair. Light from the side will provide delicate shadows from the shape of her face and dimples, and add depth. Light from directly in front (i.e. on camear flash) seldom does that.


Thanks merc, I agree completely. :nod

Light from the side is a bit trickier, as her hair kinda hoods her face. But if I want B&W contrast, then I gotta make it work.

Thanks for mentioning the darker clothes, that's kind of what I was thinking too. She's so fair that everything around her should perhaps be a bit darker.

And if I jump into the lighting thing with both feet, then a good backlight is a must. :nod Provides good separation, adds dimension.

Good stuff, I appreciate it.

[tmlphoto]

Sid ,
There is a b&w conversion program from "the imaging factory" that lets you change the tone of any color selectively. If the blinds or her coat have any color to them at all you can make them as dark or as light as you want in the final image. Also would work for the eyes and lips etc. It really a great program for conversions. Some tonal contrast would really help this shot. Also, a trick I read some where is to use the oval selection brush to select out just the face and then review the histogram of the selected area to check that you have a nice tonal range present in the face. I have also found that the eyes tend to go dark when trying to get a contrasty b&w face. Sometimes using Highlights/Shadows to lighten up the eyes, followed by moving the levels slider to get some black in the image will work. Another thing you might consider is bumping up the midtone contrast using curves or the slider under highlights/shadows. I think you have to click the advanced options tab or something like that to see this slider.

[wxwax]

Sid ,
There is a b&w conversion program from "the imaging factory" that lets you change the tone of any color selectively. If the blinds or her coat have any color to them at all you can make them as dark or as light as you want in the final image. Also would work for the eyes and lips etc. It really a great program for conversions. Some tonal contrast would really help this shot. Also, a trick I read some where is to use the oval selection brush to select out just the face and then review the histogram of the selected area to check that you have a nice tonal range present in the face. I have also found that the eyes tend to go dark when trying to get a contrasty b&w face. Sometimes using Highlights/Shadows to lighten up the eyes, followed by moving the levels slider to get some black in the image will work. Another thing you might consider is bumping up the midtone contrast using curves or the slider under highlights/shadows. I think you have to click the advanced options tab or something like that to see this slider.


Some good food for thoight there, Thomas.

I've read about the oval to isolate the face, can't remember where now. I agree about getting a good tonal range across just the face, that's pretty much my goal.

And I hadn't thought about Highlights/Shadows, good suggestion, I'll play with it.