white background / high key post workflow

[gpphotos]

hey folks.

We shoot a lot of white background stuff since it seems to sell so well here, but we've been having a couple of time-consuming problems with the images.

The first problem is the background. it looks a tad dirty and dingy, and the proofs come back from the lab looking pretty bad unless i fix the background. Here's an example of what i'm talking about:

http://gpphotos.smugmug.com/photos/417405331_6JpjG-L.jpg

now, normally i would select the background using the magic wand tool, then do a curves adjustment that blows out the background, then desaturate the background (more on why later). If there is nothing white in the foreground (clothes, props, ect) then it's very easy to select the background quickly but i end up having to do a lot of detail work with the history brush if there is white on props or on the subject.

This is fine for a couple of images, and they look pretty good when we get them from the lab. The problem is that it takes a very long time to do this to an entire proof order of say, 40 proofs. Since we offer to sell the proofs, they need to look good. If anyone has a quick way to blow out the background without a time-consuming process, feel free to clue me in :)

The other problem we're having is with the lab. First let's take a look at this image:

http://gpphotos.smugmug.com/photos/417406327_LC7LU-L.jpg

now, this is an extreme curves adjustment to show the problem areas of the background. The problem we're having with the lab is that if there is even a hint if shadow on the background or under the subject, then when we get back the proofs, these shadows have little color swirls in it, and i think it is from where the lab color corrects the image, or maybe from the printer profiles not matching what's in my computer (we work with more than 1 lab, and i don't know what photos are going to what lab.) Hince why I desaturate the background once i have it selected. Even doing that, occasionally we have a problem with it. Blowing out the background takes away most of this problem as well, but again...it's still an issue.

any thoughts?

[ian408]

Are you working with a color profile your labs can use or do they convert to something different before they print? I have seen some print work sent to the same lab several times with very different results. Most of which stink.

When you look at the problem images, are there one or two things about the image that stand out? As an example, your image contains two different whites. What about the backgrounds? Looking at your second image, it looks like it could be paper and what you're seeing is the uneven surface of the paper.

If I might make a suggestion. With the white backgrounds, you might want to light the background---blow it out--and more carefully expose your subject. You may also want to move your subject farther from the background.

[gpphotos]

Thanks for the quick reply. well, in this case i'm not the photographer...and i don't really have control on what goes on in the studio. I'm just the post-processing lacky on our studio stuffs (i shoot mostly outside the studio) which is why i posted the image in Finishing School.

Yes it is a paper background, yes the lighting is somehow uneven even using 4 lights. I may post a pic of the studio setup in another forum and see if i can recommend some changes on how the photographer is shooting in the studio.

[ian408]

Post your studio shot here as it's relative to the discussion.

And while you might be the lacky, your photographer can help improve the work flow. Improve the work flow and profit improves as well :D

[cmason]

From the shot you posted, it looks like the lights on the background are either too close or completely unmodified. Are they using an umbrella or softbox? At the top of the image you can easily make out the two lights at either side on the top, which suggests the lack of modification. Making the light smooth and even would certainly help you in post.

[pathfinder]

With high key shots, don't you want the background about 1-2 stops brighter than anything on the subject? Great discussion of high key shooting here (http://www.zarias.com/?p=71) and here (http://www.zarias.com/?p=77) I suggest you have your shooter read these, they are very helpful.

If this is done, there is no need for Photoshop work arounds. The background is fried white in the camera, and your done. The subject does need to stand 5 - 1o feet in front of the background to avoid border fringing from light from the back ground.

If you must do a Photoshop repair, the Magic Wand may not be the best tool. If you have CS3, give the Quick Selection Tool a try. If you grab too much with the Quick Selection tool, Alt-click with the brush outside the selected area to delete it.

I have not used the Magic Wand since the advent of CS3, and I do a fair amount of selections in my images. Or just do a Quick Mask with a soft brush.