Just what *is* Smugmug?

[flyingpylon]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about exactly what business relationship members have with Smugmug.

1. Some consider Smugmug a printing outsourcer. The people buying prints buy them from the photographer, and Smugmug simply handles printing and customer service, for which they hold back a portion of the print price. Smugmug's fees are seen as a cost of goods or services.

2. Some consider Smugmug to be a standalone business entity. The photographer simply uploads images, people buy prints and get service from Smugmug, and Smugmug passes any profit over and above their stated prices and fees to the photographer (if any - pros only). Profits are seen more like a commission or something.

So, which model do you consider accurate? (I'm especially interested in Chris or Don's answer to this)

[flyingpylon]

Personally, I view it as #2.

[mercphoto]

I consider it like #1 myself.

[wxwax]

#1, for sites branded by the photographer, and I suspect the majority of pros have branded their sites. Some were even touchy that the shopping cart said smugmug, as I recall. :evil

Also, you've left out a huge part of their customer base; people like me, who use smugmug as an online storage place, so we can show folks our shots and link the shots to forums like this one.

[Seamus]

#1, for sites branded by the photographer, and I suspect the majority of pros have branded their sites. Some were even touchy that the shopping cart said smugmug, as I recall. :evil

Also, you've left out a huge part of their customer base; people like me, who use smugmug as an online storage place, so we can show folks our shots and link the shots to forums like this one.

ditto, unlimited storage and easy sharing with family and friends is why I joined. Dgrin is a nice bonus as is advrider.

[onethumb]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about exactly what business relationship members have with Smugmug.

1. Some consider Smugmug a printing outsourcer. The people buying prints buy them from the photographer, and Smugmug simply handles printing and customer service, for which they hold back a portion of the print price. Smugmug's fees are seen as a cost of goods or services.

2. Some consider Smugmug to be a standalone business entity. The photographer simply uploads images, people buy prints and get service from Smugmug, and Smugmug passes any profit over and above their stated prices and fees to the photographer (if any - pros only). Profits are seen more like a commission or something.

So, which model do you consider accurate? (I'm especially interested in Chris or Don's answer to this)

The answer, probably, is #3: Smugmug is a photo sharing site who's primary aim is to power and enable photo sharing of ALL types online, whether you're a soccer mom with happy snappys or a world-renowned Pro who makes his living by combining her skill with our site.

This includes both #1 and #2, as well as a number of other models, and customers are free to use us as they see fit. I think the number of uses will continue to expand as the API improves, gets more widespread, and as smugmug partners with more other entities.

:)

Don

[flyingpylon]

I probably should have been a little more clear about what I was after. Sorry about that.

I was referring mostly to pro accounts and the business relationship between the member and Smugmug. The reason I was interested in this is because of the sales tax questions that have come up recently.

For example, if you treat Smugmug as a vendor (#1), then perhaps you need to collect and report sales taxes for your sales. If you treat Smugmug like #2, then I would say that you don't need to report sales for sales tax purposes. The money you get from Smugmug would just be counted as income.

I see it as #2 because Smugmug handles all of the credit card transactions and customer service. If you buy a print, it says "smugmug" on your credit card statement, not "joe's photos". Also, smugmug collects sales tax for customers in CA (right? - I thought I read this somewhere). That implies that Smugmug is not just an agent for the photographer, because if they were, they would need to collect sales tax for that photographer based on their location.

I'm obviously not an accountant, but I'm curious about the "right" answer to this question.

I'm also curious about how Smugmug can be referred to in any promotional material or on a web site, etc. For example, it doesn't seem quite right to call Smugmug a "partner"... so what should they be called?

[wholenewlight]

I'm obviously not an accountant, but I'm curious about the "right" answer to this question.


I asked my accountant about this very issue this past Feb and he picked #2 as 'our' choice of how the business relationship between Smugmug and myself existed. I haven't used smugmug to transact much business yet but hope to as I roll some solutions out.

I want to avoid any potential tax problems and sought his answer.

I hope this thread gets a bunch of traffic - I want to see how others respond.

[dragon300zx]

I would beleive it to be number 2 as well. For the very reason that smugmug.com is who does the billing, accepts payment, runs the shopping cart, etc. Seeing as you the photographer cannot designate the sales tax for your state (at least from what i have read that is) and smugmug.com designates the sales tax for california residents. Also to the point is the photographer isn't who shows up on the credit card statement. Smugmug does. Smugmug is the retailer. Say it was an art gallery which it basically is. The photographer puts his work on display at the gallery. The gallery sells the work, charges and pays the state sales tax. The photographer gets his cut. It's a basic wholesale type relationship. Thats how I would assume the tax model would work because of the fact thats its smugmug that handles the billing, and ends up with their name on the reciept. I know this is how it works for jewelry sales through a gallery.

As far as the pro's who use a custom URL. That doesn't necessarily make them the point of sale. Smugmug still shows up on the statement. The pro's url is simply easy directions to their gallery at smugmug.com.