Arranging videos by date taken

[cos80919]

Hello,

I am trying to combine videos and photos into an individual gallery. I want them all to be in order by the date they were taken but that info is not available in the video files. My question is, is there anyway to embed the date taken into the video files? Manual arranging the order of the videos is a real pain.

Thanks,
Mike

[docwalker]

Mike, Videos don't have the same exif data that we use for photos. Sorry. Manual positioning is going to the best option.

[darryl]

But but...

SmugMug stores date/time taken in its databases, right? Like, when you sort an album of images by date, it doesn't read EXIF headers for every photo then, correct? It probably parses EXIF after the image is uploaded, and it then adds the date/time metadata to the database.

The reason I mention this is that while AVI and MOV files do not contain EXIF data, the vast majority of current digital cameras that have movie mode offer a preview image for each video that *does* have EXIF information for date taken.

On Canon cameras, there are .THM (thumbnail) files (which is the same file that DSLRs create when you're shooting RAW (CRW) images, which also lack EXIF info.) These are just tiny JPEG files with the metadata for the movie.

Typically the filenames be the same as the movie file, with just the extension changed, so MVI_1234.AVI and MVI_1234.THM will be a pair.

I know that Kodak cameras also offer a "preview" image, and I imagine Nikon must as well. (I'm still digging for a reference.)

What would be *great* is if you uploaded .THM files along with your corresponding .AVI files, SmugMug would be smart enough to copy the metadata from that file so you *could* sort by date taken. This would be especially great for people that intermingle photos and video.

Phanfare's Windows client, by the way, does this very thing, and it is very very cool.

[cos80919]

Thanks for the replies! I will check out Phanfare's Windows client.

-Mike

[darryl]

Well, Phanfare's client only works with the Phanfare service. But you can get a free 1GB account to see how their client works. I'm a big fan.

[Andrew Maiman]

The reason I mention this is that while AVI and MOV files do not contain EXIF data, the vast majority of current digital cameras that have movie mode offer a preview image for each video that *does* have EXIF information for date taken.

On Canon cameras, there are .THM (thumbnail) files (which is the same file that DSLRs create when you're shooting RAW (CRW) images, which also lack EXIF info.) These are just tiny JPEG files with the metadata for the movie.

Typically the filenames be the same as the movie file, with just the extension changed, so MVI_1234.AVI and MVI_1234.THM will be a pair.

What would be *great* is if you uploaded .THM files along with your corresponding .AVI files, SmugMug would be smart enough to copy the metadata from that file so you *could* sort by date taken. This would be especially great for people that intermingle photos and video.

I agree, this would be a very useful feature. (Spent quite a while yesterday manually moving around video files, it it's a real pain when you have a bunch of them to have to manually position them). I tried sorting the file list on my computer by date before uploading the files, but since the uploader in IE uploads 3 files at a time, it doesn't leave them in the order that I dragged them into the uploader window. Firefox uploader (one at a time) would be better if it didn't crash the browser on large filesets (see this thread (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=105177) about that)

[pave]

I miss such feature too. But for now I'm using a workaround. What I do is I automatically rename all my photos and videos so that they have date in the file name (in the yyyy-mm-ddThh-mm-ss format) before any other characters that may differ. For example:
mountain_trip_2008-12-12T10-42-52-001.jpg
mountain_trip_2008-12-12T10-42-57-002.jpg
...
mountain_trip_2008-12-12T13-41-17-072.jpg
mountain_trip_2008-12-12T13-42-52-john_climbs_a_rock.avi
mountain_trip_2008-12-12T13-57-11-073.jpg

Then you select "arrange by file name" in smugmug gallery options and voila!

[SamirD]

One really quick thing you can do is simply sort by the filename. Most of the time, your files will be in date order if they are in sequential order.

I never reset my filenames, so I only have to worry about dupes or an out-of-order situation every 10,000 shots. It's worked well for me so far.

[eric239]

But but...

SmugMug stores date/time taken in its databases, right? Like, when you sort an album of images by date, it doesn't read EXIF headers for every photo then, correct? It probably parses EXIF after the image is uploaded, and it then adds the date/time metadata to the database.

The reason I mention this is that while AVI and MOV files do not contain EXIF data, the vast majority of current digital cameras that have movie mode offer a preview image for each video that *does* have EXIF information for date taken.

On Canon cameras, there are .THM (thumbnail) files (which is the same file that DSLRs create when you're shooting RAW (CRW) images, which also lack EXIF info.) These are just tiny JPEG files with the metadata for the movie.

Typically the filenames be the same as the movie file, with just the extension changed, so MVI_1234.AVI and MVI_1234.THM will be a pair.

I know that Kodak cameras also offer a "preview" image, and I imagine Nikon must as well. (I'm still digging for a reference.)

What would be *great* is if you uploaded .THM files along with your corresponding .AVI files, SmugMug would be smart enough to copy the metadata from that file so you *could* sort by date taken. This would be especially great for people that intermingle photos and video.

Phanfare's Windows client, by the way, does this very thing, and it is very very cool.

Want to throw my $0.02 into this discussion - I'm one of the SmugMug users who mixes photos and videos in a single gallery a lot, so ability to force setting date taken for videos would be very useful. While several options have been mentioned, why not to either allow date taken to be manually set (probably for videos only) (yes, I understand the "cluttering UI" contr-argument) or at least default it to date modified (file's last modified timestamp) - right now it seems to default to logical zero / null of sorts, since if I arrange by date taken ascending, all the videos always show up first.

Another reason for doing something useful with date taken of movies is that currently they never show up in browse by date taken. This is maybe even more important concern than arranging within a gallery (since there're several workarounds for the latter but I'm not aware of one for the former :scratch ).

[oceanboy]

It's very frustrating that videos have no metadata when uploaded. Taking EXIF data from the .THM file would be great. Some programs embed XMF data in the video, or create a sidecar .XMF file, so recognizing and using this data would be extremely helpful. At a minimum, caption/title, GPS, and creation date should be used.

[airtas]

what is the purpose of the THM files and what if I deleted them?

[Allen]

what is the purpose of the THM files and what if I deleted them?
I think those are only used by the camera to display a thumbnail.

[airtas]

hmmmm a thumb of the video?
I deleted them and the camera still shows a thumb

[stufur]

I agree. I would love to be able to edit the date taken on for video so it will show up in the "photo" timeline.

Flickr allows date taken to set for videos (and edited for photos) :)

[SamirD]

hmmmm a thumb of the video?
I deleted them and the camera still shows a thumbIt probably rebuilt the thumbnail file. Some will do this.

[rmarch]

Any progress on this topic? This is really important for my usage of SmugMug. It seems to be very simple to set date taken manually for a video. Such a simple change would be so powerful for those trying to combine pictures and videos in the same gallery and enable new functionality like videos in the timeline view. I don't really care if it is done by any of the following: take date modified as the default for date taken; manually set date taken; some kind of .thm sidecar upload or equivalent. To be honest whatever is easiest.

The reason this is key for me is that I am using a gallery called Daily Stream which I upload, you guessed it, daily pictures and videos. While I have other galleries that are the more classic - upload shots; arrange; never add more photos. The daily stream is constantly having new items added. This in turn means that manual placement does not work. If manual placement is on and new items are added, they are no longer sorted by date taken. This quickly becomes unworkable with videos in the mix.

Also, as mentioned in this thread, a wonderful side effect (or the main effect for some), would be that videos would show up on the timeline which is a critical view for me for a whole bunch of reasons I won't go into unless someone cares to know more.

Finally, while slightly off topic I still think it is relevant for this thread. Another dead simple upgrade for videos would be the ability to identify videos automatically in a smart gallery. Of course I can tag them, but this is terribly inefficient and error prone when the raw data to determine a video is easily available to SmugMug. It is a perfect usage . I really don't like to use keywords to set data of which there is a more definitive source (in this case a file type).

[rmarch]

Wow that was fast!!! After posting about the date taken being used for the video, I noticed the post about the new thumbnail replacement for videos. In that thread it mentions nothing of the date taken sorting issue. So I gave it a whirl without much expectation and it works! I uploaded a new thumbnail for a video with the date taken set to where I wanted it to be on the thumbnail. Not only does it look great, but it now shows up in the proper location within a gallery set to auto sort on date taken. Excellent.

Because nothing is ever quite good enough, I would love to see the ability to set the date taken right from that same thumbnail replacement screen. So when in a hurry (as it takes a tiny bit of work to crop the thumbnail and upload it when you only want date taken), you could just keep the existing thumbnail from the video but update the date taken. It is a logical place to keep the setting since the screen has already been added and now we know it works. Also, it still does not appear to show up in the timeline view.

Thanks SmugMug.

[nigelbb]

what is the purpose of the THM files and what if I deleted them?Assuming that we are talking about the Canon DSLRs then this file contains EXIF information e.g. aperture, shutter speed, date & time etc This information is used by the Canon Final Cut plugin when importing the matching video file.

[jksmf]

Hey all, I've been wanted that feature too for some time. So I added it to the forum. Maybe we can vote it in. Link is below. Thanks!

http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug/suggestions/1155165-dates-on-videos?ref=title

/j

[SamirD]

I've noticed some funkiness when video thumbnails lately. Nothing big, and nothing consistent, but the thumbnails are sometimes ity bity on small videos like the original thumbnail files. :dunno

[oceanboy]

I agree, this would be a very useful feature. (Spent quite a while yesterday manually moving around video files, it it's a real pain when you have a bunch of them to have to manually position them). I tried sorting the file list on my computer by date before uploading the files, but since the uploader in IE uploads 3 files at a time, it doesn't leave them in the order that I dragged them into the uploader window. On OS X, dragging a bunch of files never seems to preserve the Finder order, so I don't think upload order can be relied on anyway.

Why not have the uploader send the file system's creation and modification timestamps, and allow galleries to be sorted by either?

One really quick thing you can do is simply sort by the filename. Most of the time, your files will be in date order if they are in sequential order.

I never reset my filenames, so I only have to worry about dupes or an out-of-order situation every 10,000 shots. It's worked well for me so far.This doesn't work for those who upload files from different devices (in my case, I create galleries containing pictures and videos for an event, taken by two iPhones and a Canon camera).

It's very frustrating that videos have no metadata when uploaded. Taking EXIF data from the .THM file would be great. Some programs embed XMF data in the video, or create a sidecar .XMF file, so recognizing and using this data would be extremely helpful. At a minimum, caption/title, GPS, and creation date should be used.This would be extremely helpful.