Camera Policies at Music Festivals? (Bonnaroo, Bumbershoot, Outside Lands?)

[darryl]

So, InsuredDisaster recently brought up the topic of Guerilla Photography. I've always thought that sneaking a camera (http://austinpowers.smugmug.com/Music) into a concert in your pants or otherwise is the ultimate guerilla photography.

I've never had the balls (ahem) to stick a camera or big lens down there.

But I have brought my admittedly smaller Digital Rebel and Canon S3 to Seattle's Bumbershoot on numerous occasions. And I've never had any problems* shooting whatever I wanted.

However I have noticed that many of these outdoor music festivals like Bumbershoot, including Bonnaroo, and the upcoming Outside Lands in San Francisco, have official policies of "no professional cameras", which is always defined as "detachable lenses".

When pressed, the promoters always claim that it's by artist request that "professional" cameras are prohibited. Now a co-worker that shoots concerts and musicians gave me an earful about how you could get in trouble for trying to sell (or even posting on a website?) photos of an artist or band without getting their permission, etc. So there's that. (And I know my local San Jose Museum of Art prohibits photography of exhibits, so I could see that being an issue at Bumbershoot with their various art installations.)

But there's also the fact that there is plenty of stuff to shoot at a music festival besides the artists. What about shooting the audience, passers-by, the Space Needle, etc?

And what about enforcement? When I went to Bumbershoot a few years back, I was worried enough to bury my camera beneath a bunch of diapers. But recently I was challenged to show that my Canon S3 did *not* have a detachable lens before being allowed into the "Main Stage" arena where Crowded House was performing.

ANYWAYS, my point is, in today's world of ultrazooms (with great video capabilities as well, which is always prohibited at these events), camera phones, and ever cheaper DSLRs, it seems like concert promoters are going to have an increasingly difficult time prohibiting people from taking quality photos and video.

Anyone have thoughts on the issue?

Here's some links for thought:

- Bumbershoot: the arbitrary "professional camera" definition (http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2005/08/31/no-cameras-at-bumbershoot/)
- Bonnaroo: Friday, 1:05am - I'm reprimanded for my camera (http://www.stevemathewes.com/blog/2008/06/bonnaroo_2008_worth_the_waits.html)

[OffTopic]

Oh, such a sore subject with me! We have an annual blues festival. The website and the tickets specifically state that photography IS allowed, no mention of pro camera vs non-pro, just straight out allowed. :clap
Every year I buy Gold level tickets which puts me right up front and gives me back stage access all weekend. I was surprised that photography was allowed because the headliner is a fairly big name performer - BB King, John Fogarty, The Neville Brothers, Bonnie Raitt, Chuck Berry...I shoot with my 70-200mm 2.8 because it's fast and great for when the sun goes down, and it's just a sweet lens.

Anyway...first two years no problem. The following year when they check my bag at security they tell me I can't bring in that lens. Now there are lots of people around me with bigger lenses (300mm+) that had no problem getting through security, but because mine is WHITE I can't take it in. Two mile hike back to the car to put it away...

So this year I thought I would write to the organizer (Omega Events) ahead of time to ask for clarification of the policy so I understood what lens I could take in. My first two e-mails were given a 'return-to-sender' bounce after a week, even though I am 100% positive I used the correct e-mail address. After a little digging I found a specific person to write to, and my request was just ignored. Meanwhile, I take a look on the web and see all these shots people got with lenses bigger than what I wanted to use. And their info page still states that "still cameras - no video" are allowed under "What to bring." :deal

I didn't attend this year because I was so mad.

I might have to try using duct tape on my lens next year.

[colourbox]

It's a confusing subject because it also depends on the artists' attitudes. I go to shows at clubs sometimes, and after the last two where countless fans where snapping away with their phones and point-and-shoots down next to the stage without anyone stopping them, I brought my point-and-shoot the last time, and that time I found myself next to fans with SLRs! Clearly these particular artists didn't mind and both they and the clubs had no desire or legal need to stop the photographers in the crowd.

But a big festival with big-name acts and 400 smaller acts is not going to want to micromanage which artists do and don't have concerns about photography. They will need one simple, blanket policy, and the typical major label policy of extreme content protection will rule there.

[Andy]

Artists and / or venues allow all manner of point and shoots. Some of these will take damn fine photos when you are in the first few rows, and you get lucky to catch the light right. But once you pull out a DSLR and a lens, you are instantly targeted.

:bigbs

It's total crap and they should have a all or none policy. The "some cameras are okay" crap has to stop.

[darryl]

Hey Andy:

If the policy is "none", will you abstain from stuffing your pants with an 85mm 1.2 lens? :-}

[NikonsandVstroms]

I used to bring a backpack full cameras and lenses to shows all around Boston, along with lots of Tmax 3200 :deal Most venues would stop to look into the backpack, but after that they just let me through

[Andy]

Hey Andy:

If the policy is "none", will you abstain from stuffing your pants with an 85mm 1.2 lens? :-}
Depends :thumb

My needs are less now that my better half has actually sung on stage with Sting & The Police:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZSA6pfpshQ

(She's in the white pants)

[ChatKat]

I was a the Hollywood Bowl on Friday to see Diana Ross. P&S cameras everywhere with their little flashes popping.

At the gate, they turned back several people with dSLR's. I thought that could happen, so I packed my 5d and a 50 1.2 on it - no flash - in a small picnic cooler with napkins on top. The images were great and I sure wanted to have the 70-200 with me. The ushers did not stop me from going up during the concert, but, I kneeled out of the way of those seated.

[NikonsandVstroms]

[quote=ChatKat]I was a the Hollywood Bowl on Friday to see Diana Ross. P&S cameras everywhere with their little flashes popping.

[quote]


There's nothing like seeing all those people 100 feet back with their little point-and-shoot flashes going off. The big thing I've noticed, especially now since every single phone is a camera phone basically is that if you go to a show with a younger audience (late teens and early 20s primarily). There will be tons of cell phones out recording with people watching the recordings on their little LCD monitors instead of the show. As much as I love concert photography, looking through the viewfinder at a concert just isn't the same as sitting back and enjoying it. Just a big personal pet peeve. But this is going on everywhere now I even saw it last night at a performance art exhibition.

[darryl]

Well, here's the official word from the San Francisco Outside Lands Festival promoters:


Date: 7/29/2008 3:50 PM
From: Outside Lands Music & Arts Festival <info@sfoutsidelands.com>

We will be checking bags at the entrance gates, and all security and staff will be briefed on what is allowed and not allowed into the festival. As our rules define that professional cameras are ones with detachable lenses, only cameras without detachable lenses will be allowed into the festival. We apologize if this causes any inconvenience.


So, Canon S3 with 12X zoom and great audio/video-recording capabilities: OK
1st Gen Digital Rebel with crap 18-55mm kit lens: Nope!

Lame.

[moose135]

So, Canon S3 with 12X zoom and great audio/video-recording capabilities: OK
1st Gen Digital Rebel with crap 18-55mm kit lens: Nope!

Lame. Exactly! Many of these places say no video cameras, then allow P&S's with video capability in. One night I was at the Nassau Coliseum for a NY Islander game with my 30D & 70-200L. The guy at the gate asked me "Is that a professional camera?" I said "It can't be, I'm not a professional photographer!"

[somaman]

Well, here's the official word from the San Francisco Outside Lands Festival promoters:



So, Canon S3 with 12X zoom and great audio/video-recording capabilities: OK
1st Gen Digital Rebel with crap 18-55mm kit lens: Nope!

Lame.


wow~ that means i can bring in my Pany FZ18! :clap
i was worried about whether superzooms are allowed....